Hello interweb, Nate here. So with convergence on its way, I started to think about the last reboot (which happened only 5 years ago), the New 52, and I remembered that while I never really hated the reboot and also never really loved it either, there were several things it did that ticked me off. So I decided to compile a list of some characters the New 52 tried to modernize and failed to do so (unless “modernize” is synonymous with “over complicate and insulting” then yeah they succeeded, but that’s obviously not good). While a few of these may be nitpicks, most of these I honestly feel the New 52 just ruined a few characters.
To see my other Top 10s (or 5s) click here.
Apologies for Last Post
So last post I talked about the Batgirl #41 Joker Variant and my opinion was that they basically overreacted with pulling the cover. The reason I was annoyed about this was because I thought the complaints where gender-based (which for the most part they kinda are) but some of the people who commented did say how gender had nothing to do with it and how it was just an overly dark and violent cover for a comic targeting mostly little girls (like 10-ish). After looking at it like that I realized that they’re right. Maybe if the comic was a bit more mature than the cover would’ve been ok, but to put that cover on a comic for younger readers was a bit inappropriate and the fact that I said it was ok makes me feel that I should apologize for what I said. And considering that the poll had 3 votes for yes it was offensive and 3 votes for no it wasn’t offensive, I feel like at least half of you guys didn’t really like it.
Rulez
- Must be a character I feel was ruined by the New 52
- This could mean bad character redesigns, bad (or straight up offensive) personality changes, or just a poor writer for their comic book run.
- This is opinion based, meaning if you don’t agree than just comment below for your opinion
Dishonorable Mention – Harley Quinn
Pre-New 52 Harley Quinn
New 52 Harley Quinn
Harley Quinn was one of those New 52 controversies that I had mixed feelings about. Before the New 52, Harley Quinn was Jokers cute and bubbly girlfriend, but the New 52 decided to make her more insane and showed off some more skin. Now the insane part I honestly didn’t care about and actually liked the change. But the fact that her new design shows off a bit more skin…yeah. So let me get this straight, someone took the cute and bubbly Harley Quinn from the animated series and thought it was okay to sexualize a mentally insane clown? That’s just kinda creepy. Although I like the new hair.
#10 – Black Canary
Pre-New 52 Black Canary
New 52 Black Canary
What the heck am I looking at? Cause this isn’t Black Canary. Black Canary is a BA motorcyclist who wears a leather motorcycle jacket. But then they changed it to…um…what is that? This is just one of the many examples of the New 52 over complicating a design. The yellow stripes are unnecessary and they should’ve stuck with her biker jacket.
#9 – Lobo
Pre-New 52 Lobo
New 52 Lobo
How exactly did the Lobo with the body type of Deathstroke manage to kill the Lobo with the body type of Hulk, Bane, or Juggernaut?
Let me get one thing out of the way: I’m not a fan of Lobo. I don’t hate him like Wolverine but I just don’t care much about him. However, I do know what he’s suppose to be like and the New 52 ruined it. Lobo is an alien mercenary and bounty hunter and is usually shown being big, strong (shown to be inconsistently on par with the strength of Superman), and rather rude. In the New 52, there was a continuity error (there where a lot of continuity errors when the New 52 started) where the New 52 Lobo debuted in both Deathstroke #9 and Justice League #23.2 as part of villains month. The one that debuted in the Deathstroke comic had a lot more similarities with the Pre-New 52 Lobo while the one in Justice League appeared to be a lot more like if Edward Cullen was Lobo. So one was chosen to be an imposter and was killed off by the “real” Lobo, I’ll give you a few seconds to decide which version they chose to be the “real” Lobo… … …times up! It was the Edward Cullen Lobo. Just, why? Did anyone really though we needed the Edward Cullen of Lobos in out New 52?
#8 – Static
This isn’t so much about the new design (because in my opinion it’s pretty cool) but the writer’s choices in the comic. When the New 52 started, Static Shock #1 was one of first 52 comics that came out that month. However the comic was cancelled after just 6 issues prompting me to get the trade paperback at my library to see why no one was buying it. I was honestly hoping no one was buying it simply because he’s still a pretty obscure character (despite his cartoon back in the early 2000s) compared to the likes of the Justice League, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. and people were just buying those comics instead of this one. However my fear that no one was buying it because it stunk was confirmed when I read it myself. I’ve already talked about Static’s history in three different posts (my inaccurate Top 10 favorite DC superheroes, Top 10 Movies I want to see, and my Martin Luthor King Jr Day Special on my Top 10 Favorite Black Superheroes) so I won’t talk about him here, but when Dwayne McDuffie, Static’s creator, created Static it was to make a better representation of minorities (in this case Black people) in mainstream comics. This comic just turned Static into something of a stereotype and the comic itself didn’t make any sense.
The thing I found interesting is one of the writers, Scott McDaniel, is an electric engineer so I thought giving him an electric-based superhero would be pretty interesting since he would know the properties of electricity. Although he apparently had some arguments with DC and fellow writer John Rozum which turned the comic into a mess. I hope that they’ll bring back Static after convergence and this time give him an appropriate writer, but knowing DC they’ll probably give the next title a decent or bad writer so that they can give the good writers too the countless Superman and Batman titles. I love Batman more than any DC super…-scratch that-more than any superhero out there, but we don’t need 5 different Batman titles and I would like to see some b-list or c-list characters with good writers.
#7 – Beast Boy
Pre-New 52 Beast Boy
New 52 Beast Boy
Now thankfully they fixed him so he’s green again (although I didn’t read the first run of the New 52 Teen Titans so I don’t know whether or not they gave a legitimate reason for going back to the green color or artists just decided to change it back for unexplained reasons) but when the New 52 first started they thought it would be a good idea to change Beast Boy from the usual green color to red. They changed quite a few Titans making quite a few fans of the team really annoyed. A couple of the Titans, like Beast Boy here, being part of the 2003 Teen Titan cartoon so fans of that show that started reading this comic got upset too. The explanation for this changed (behind the scene, not in the actual comic) was that DC wanted to link Beast Boy to Animal Man. I don’t know much about Animal Man so I had to do some research and by what I can tell Animal Man doesn’t actually turn into animals, like Beast Boy, but instead adopts the abilities of animals by an force called “The Red”. Again, I don’t know much about Animal Man so I don’t know whether or not there’s more to the story but the fact of the matter is that DC unnecessarily turned Beast Boy to red even though he has been green for decades. And the fact that the New 52 Teen Titans comics (see #6) had a mostly red color scheme, Beast Boy just looked bland and blended in with everything making the color choice even worse.
#6 – Teen Titans
The New 52 really liked over complicated designs and stripes all over the costumes and the worst of this is the Teen Titans. It got better with the second run, but the first run was terrible. When you read the comic the colors often blended together and just wasn’t fun to look at. Oh, and the titans had a thing for glowing stripes and the back ground was often red making the characters practically blend into each other. Linkara has already did a review on the first Teen Titans story in the New 52 Teen Titans: The Culling so you can check out part 1 of his 4-part review here.
#5 – Artemis
Young Justice was a popular DC cartoon (that actually had little if any to do with the actual Young Justice comics) that gathered quite the fanbase. One of the things the cartoon did was introduce the character Artemis (who was already around in the form of Arrowetta). Artemis became a fan-favorite and DC decided to introduce her into the Teen Titans storyline Teen Titans: The Culling. Huh, that sounds framiliar. Anyways, that was actually a smart idea as it allows fans of the show to get introduced to the comics with a character they already have an attachment to. And the design is really similar to the cartoon (with the exception of the blue paint but whatever).
So if I thought it was a good idea than why is she on this list, and so high on the list? Well, because they killed her off in the first issue. You read that correctly, DC brought in a popular character from a popular cartoon and decided to kill her off in the first issue she ever appeared in a comic. Is DC trying to mock us or something? I can practically see them going “You want this character in the comics? here you go…now let’s kill her!”
#4- Raven
Pre-New 52 Raven
New 52 Raven
Raven has had a very interesting comic book history and thanks to both the 80s run of The New Teen Titans being the best run (according to most people who’ve read it) of the Teen Titans and the cartoon, Raven is probably one of, if not the, most popular of the Titans. She was a half demon and daughter of Trigon (the DC’s version of Satan) and was basically born to bring Trigon to Earth. She of course didn’t want to bring Trigon to Earth and attempted to use her demonic powers for good instead of evil. She iconic for wearing a black cloak and having short, black hair. But instead of that design, DC decided to make her look like some type of monster. Oh, and since her name’s Raven, why don’t we give her feathers on her costume? Here’s why, it’s stupid!
#3 – Starfire
Original Starfire
Animated Starfire
New 52 Starfire
Click the pic to read easier
Starfire is probably one of the New 52’s most controversial change and for several reasons. The biggest reason this is so controversial is because, well, she was ridiculously sexualized. Now people have stated that Starfire has always been sexualized, not to this degree. Starfire’s a Tamaranian, an alien races that apparently doesn’t understand the human need for modesty. As a result, there where several scenes where Starfire would question the purpose of clothing. But the whole point to her was that she was basically suppose to be sexy, but she didn’t know it. On top of the fans of the old comics with Starfire in it, people commonly knows Starfire from the Teen Titans cartoon series. Although obviously they couldn’t put the Starfire from the comics into the series so they changed a sexualized character into the cute and bubbly version (think Harley Quinn from Batman: TAS as an alien).
Now keeping in mind that the purpose of the New 52 was to make it easier for new readers to get into comics, just…look at this panel to the left from Red Hood and the Outlaws #1. This is worst than her original comic book version! They changed it from a character that was suppose to be sexy but not knowing it, to a character that’s sexy and she knows it. Honestly, I was originally going to not add this to the list as I frankly didn’t want to talk about it. But if I didn’t add it to the list, than that would be like saying that I’m fine with it and that’s obviously not true. Who even thought this was a good idea?!?!
I do want to make it clear that I never read Red Hood and the Outlaws and I probably never will. Besides, Linkara already reviewed #1 so I already know how bad it is.
#2 – Superman
Pre-New 52 Superman
New 52 Superman
Superman is one of my favorite superheroes and I know what Superman should be like. I’ve said this before, but the point of Superman is that he’s a god among men that chose to use his immense power to save and protect people. He’s a boyscout and he’s suppose to be the living embodiment of the superhero, doing anything and everything that he thinks is the right thing to do. And then he can live among humanity as the nerdy, clumsy Clark Kent.
What we got instead is a high school jerk who decides to use his powers for good because he likes to punch things. I could do a Top 10 List alone on everything wrong with the New 52 Superman alone. On top of that, why does Superman need armor? He can basically fight crime in pajamas and have the same amount of protection, and while I like to complain about his red trunks being removed because they’re part of the iconic Superman design, it seems that most people have either wanted the trunks to be gone for a while or has given up on it so maybe I should just bury the hatchet on that.
But the design and personality isn’t the only thing terrible about the New 52 Superman. For example, early on in the comics Ma and Pa Kent was killed off. Are you kidding me! Superman was one of the few superheroes out there that wasn’t an orphan and now you just gave him superhero cliche #1. And the worst part is the Ma and Pa Kent was killed off when he was young. The main reason that Superman isn’t an orphan (besides the fact that he was created before that cliche) is because Ma and Pa Kent taught Superman to be the boyscout he was always suppose to be. They’re the reason that Superman would much rather make peace with a villain (yes, even Lex Luthor) than throw a fist at them.
#1 – Wally West
Pre-New 52 Wally West
New 52 Wally West
This may require a little bit of history to be explained properly. In 1956, DC recreated the Flash (previously a college student named Jay Garrick) as a forensic scientist named Barry Allen. Later on, Barry Allen’s nephew, Wally West, was turned into Kid Flash with the exact same accident that turned Barry into the Flash. Later Bart Allen, the 31st century grandson to Barry Allen, was brought back into the present as Impulse. During 1985 Crisis on Infinite Earths (which is way to confusing to explain in depth here but it was a way for DC to reboot their universe and combine their multiverse into the one universe) Barry Allen died trying to save the world, causing Wally West to take the mantle as the Flash and Bart to become Kid Flash. Barry would be dead for 20 years (real time) meaning to anyone that loved superheroes between 1985 and 2009 (where he back in Geoff Johns’s Flash: Rebirth) Wally West is the Flash. That goes for me too as I was born in 1999 and as such I grew up with Wally being Flash and as such he’s my favorite Flash.
When the New 52 started, it followed the 6-issue miniseries Flashpoint in which Flash (Barry Allen) basically rebooted the DC universe (not going to go into specifics). After this, Barry Allen stayed as Flash and Bart Allen (now called Bar Torr, for some reason) came back as Kid Flash. So where’s Wally? Well, Wally didn’t appear for a while but at one point the writers wanted to bring Wally West back to the DC universe. So DC editorials said yes but as long as they mess up the character. Oh sorry, what they actually said is that they can bring him back but only if they make him a minority character. So Wally West came back as a Black character and as Impulse with the worst costume of the Flashes, even the new Kid Flash. Now just to be clear, I love Black people. You know what scratch that, I love people of all races. Plus adding more characters of different ethnicity is a great thing to attempt and I think DC should try to do just that. But turning Wally Black would be like turning Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Hal Jordan/Green Lantern, or Aquaman a race other than White, you just don’t do it. Wally has an iconic look: pale skin, freckles, and red hair. So why bring him back as a Black character? Why not make a new character that’s not White? Or make some of your current Black superheroes, like maybe Static, more well known and better written?
Besides the ethnicity, Wally West is known to be the wise-cracking Flash. He’s like if Spider-man was a speedster only nicer (c’mon, Spider-man does have a habit of mocking his enemies). Oh and speaking of being nice, one of the reasons I like Wally more than Barry is that wally is really funny but also a really nice guy. He’s just likable and someone to look up too. So what is he like in the New 52 (besides being Black)? Well, he started out as participating in illegal acts such as vandalizing and shoplifting. Not even kidding. Wally West was turned into a Black kid whose basically a bad kid. Hey DC, turning a character into a different ethnicity isn’t really helpful when it’s a stereotype of that ethnicity. Just, what were you guys thinking?!?!
End Poll
Did you like the New 52? Also, which of these characters do you feel where ruined? I’m just curious if you guys agree with me or not.
Superhero etc. 
Do creators count? Cuz I feel like it ruined Geoff Johns. I’m hoping Convergence brings back Pre 52 Geoff Johns.
Lol, no just the characters. How did GJ get ruined?
With the exception of Green Lantern, his titles went downhill. He usually is writer that wrote clever stories with both depth and energy. Aquaman and Justice league both lacked depth and I felt he was writing them just to sell books. Aquaman literally took me 20 minutes to read the first trade. Great art though.
Ah, I see. I haven’t read New 52 Aqua man, but after Justice League: Origins the title slowly went downhill in quality
I tried to get into the New 52 Cat Woman,because my local library had a couple of the graphic novels, and I thought why not, its free comics, just couldn’t. It seemed so random and I just couldn’t care about Serena,no matter how much I wanted too. .
I have not read Catwoman but i haven’t heard good things about it either. I have been meaning to read Harley Quinn’s title, I heard that was good!
I prefer it red. and say he was ruined just because they changed color is ridiculous. Huck was already red and white was already too. you do not accept any kind of change? not to mention that yes there is an explanation for it changes color (from red to green againo
I’m sorry…who are you talking about? What’s going on?
I prefer it red. and say he was ruined just because they changed color is ridiculous. Huck was already red and white was already too. you do not accept any kind of change? not to mention that yes there is an explanation for it changes color (from red to green again)
This is awesome, great job writing this I highly agree with all of this!!
Thanks! 🙂
A different origin story is not a problem for my taste regarding Superman. It means he has to be stronger, because he can’t just use Martha and Jonathan Kent as a crutch, he has to be stronger, and not have this wonderful wish fulfillment with a wife he can always go home to in Metropolis. That’s Superman, and that means that the character is challenged. Being a Jerk? He acted to comfort Bruce, he is trusted with some secrets of people close to him. Plus, why should he have to call up Bruce Wayne to intimidate criminals? Why not be able to do some of that himself? He’s still a good guy overall to me, even with his personality. Like he said to Manchester Black Pre-Flashpoint, he is never going to stop fighting for what’s right. He still won’t stop. Doesn’t matter if he got his secret identity exposed and his powers are shot, he still cares and will still try. This may not be the Superman of years ago, but it’s one who is struggling to be a better person and really does care about people, he hasn’t been dealt with these wonderful, generous circumstances that his earlier counterpart was.
Fair enough, but I’m still not a fan of his personality in the New 52. Besides, Superman can intimidate criminals without Batman. I mean if he can lift a skyscraper by himself I doubt any bad guy would want to be on Supe’s bad side. And his parents made Superman the humble person he’s suppose to be.
You are super racist to black people there should be more black characters you should be ashamed!!😡😡😡😡😡 disgusting
Can’t tell whether or not you’re serious…
Your reasoning is somewhat racist. As a POC, I have issues with black Wally too. My issue is how stereotypical he his. His father left him (abandoned black father) and gets taken on by a white mentor for no reason (white savior). The race of a character can add a whole new element to the story so race ending done right can enhance the character as a whole. Race bending should be done right or not at all.
I see what you’re getting at but honestly I’m against race or gender bending in general. Wally West has already been established as a white redhead and should remain as such (and the stereotypical position they placed him in just made it worse). I’m all for more diversity and seeing more superheroes that are POC, but changing an established character just to reach that diversity is the wrong way to go imo. Either make new POC superheroes, or make the ones you already have (such as Static and Blue Beetle/Jaime Reyes) more recognizable. They kinda did this with Cyborg by featuring him in the Teen Titans cartoon as well as making him a founding member of the Justice League in the New 52.
I’m not against more POC superheroes, I’m against changing established characters in order to get more POC superheroes.
So? What if someone IS “racist”? That doesn’t make them “disgusting”. How dare you judge someone for their opinion?
Being racist is disgusting. Witht that said, I’m not racist.
No, superduperawesomeguy, being racist is not disgusting. At all. It means having an educated opinion based on empirical evidence.
Yes, they should make more characters of different ethnicities. Keyword being “MAKE”, it’s way too lazy when they change a character that’s already been established just to fit a racial quota. Besides, it’s like they’re screaming outloud that they don’t really give a damn and are just doing it so people don’t complain.
I agree with the Wally West stuff. As a black person I’m happy to see a lot more diversity going on in the comic book world, but as a big fan of Wally West, I don’t want him to be black. It’s a hard conversation for me because the only Wally I new and the only Wally I like is the green eyed, freckled, red headed boy. And even if I do get use to this new flash I’m pissed that he was introduced as a criminal!
Exactly! If DC wants more Black representation than create more Black characters or shiw off they’re pre existing characters more!
I agree with you on Wally West plus if they wanted to do a reboot couldn’t they’ve waited until the continuity got to confusing for the writers. Perhaps in another 75 years where it probably more likely to be warranted.
The problem is that comics are trying to create more diversity by changing established characters. Some I guess kinda work (like making Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn bi) but most of them is just obnoxious (female Thor, Black Wally West, Black Captain America, gay Iceman, etc.). If you want more diversity than create new characters, don’t change established ones.
I haven’t read the New 52 Flash, but if Wally is anything like he is in the Flash TV series, I’d agree with you.
I really hate New 52 Superman he not the kind person who despite having god-like powers doesn’t think of himself as a god just a person who wants to do in the world I knew and loved.
Plus the New 52 has no mentor relationships which is what I really enjoyed pre-Flashpoint DC. Pre-Flashpoint everyone respected one another. Here in the New 52 there is little to no respect to be found. So if DC’s Rebirth event will bring back an era where heroes respect one another I will be happy.
Agreed on all respects 🙂 I hope Rebirth does a better Superman than New 52. and yeah the New 52 did have a habit of eliminating the historic relationships between characters. Kid Flash wasn’t originally affiliated with the Flash, Red Robin wasn’t originally affiliated with Batman, and I could be wrong but I don’t think Speedy/Red Arrow/Arsenal (I don’t remember what he went by) was affiliated with Green Arrow. I hope Rebirth rebirths these relationships 😛 (bad pun is bad)
I forgot to say good in that sentence and I really hate that I can’t edit it.
Honestly I would just prefer if they just merged pre-Flashpoint continuity with New-52 Earth and call it Shattered Earth and the reason New 52 is so dark is that not a whole Earth.
That would be nice 🙂
Wait, you really like that idea?!
I’m really surprised here!
Well yeah! As a whole, I’m not a fan of the New 52 but there are elements that has came out of it that should be kept. Scott Snyder’s Batman run, the end of Geoff John’s Green Lantern run, etc. Adding these things to the pre-Flashpoint continuity would be a great idea and DC can just get rid of things they don’t like (like hopefully New 52 Superman)
Well, I have lot more ideas but some of them might be a little too high concept. Like my Wonder Woman idea or my explanation about why having more than Earth Green Lantern makes sense.
What’s your idea with Wpnder Woman and Green Lantern?
Well, my idea for a Wonder Woman origin revamp is that her soul was conceived the old fashioned way between Hippolyta & Theseus but the Greeks gods being jerks caused her to miscarry. She made a pact with them that all she will never carry a child in exchange for all the great gifts. But you know she broke it and they punished her for it. Call them out on their cruelty to her they make made a another deal in which if she continues to be loyal they bring back her child. So soul is conceived but after a 1000 years they tell her to make a baby out of clay you know the rest. But their is one little detail that’s different not all Amazons are immortal and if they wish to have children they may leave the Island and form relationships with men. However when they give birth to boys they will raise them till they are 5yrs old which then must give back their sons to the outside world and for many it’s heartbreaking affair as they love their sons deeply but only women can live on the Island. So Diana has seen boys before but never grown men until Steve crashes there. I never seen that in any Wonder Woman story and thought that drive her character in interesting ways. I’ll be honest it might be work on paper but it if makes the Amazon not look straw feminist it might better idea than most I have seen before. I will note in my origin she was conceived with consent from both parties no rape was involved.
I don’t know, that’s an interesting idea but I like the idea that Themyscira is comoletely isolated from the outside world until Steve shows up. As for Wonder Woman’s birth, I guess that could work but the classic origin is my personal favorite. I didn’t like the New 52 idea of her being a goddess and I kinda want her to go back to gaining her abilities as gifts from the gods.
Yeah, like I said it might not work on paper but I just made that origin as a comprise so technically her body was made from clay but her soul just didn’t exist instantly which was my one what was one gripe with her classic origin. Plus wouldn’t she have gotten lonely being the only child on the Island? Her classic origin didn’t allow her to have any peers to play with. Another gripe I had with the traditional origin why weren’t the other Amazon’s allowed to have daughters conceived the way Diana was? Moving on about why having one more than Green Lantern from make sense and it’s just that simple. The Earth has 6 billion people and one Green Lantern isn’t gonna be enough. Which makes me wonder how all the other sectors usually have one Green Lantern wouldn’t it be at least common sense to have at least 2? I give to much thought into these thoughts and should learn to slow down on it.
Green Lanterns usually habe two members per sector. Usually Hal is the main GL of sector 2814 (Earth) with John Stewart as a back up. But there’s also Guy Garnder, Kyle Reyner, and more recently Simon Baz. Although Kyle was the ONLY GL for a while. Simon accidentally became a GL and wasn’t formally asigned the role.
Thanks for correcting me on that I will be honest some things escape me because there’s so much continuity that at times I can only remember the basics for certain mythos. Still if each sector had a planet with a population equivalent to Earth would one Lantern be enough to help as many people as possible? I’m sorry if my musings about some of this makes you uncomfortable and really shouldn’t try to invoke too much logic in the Superhero genre.
Oh no you’re fibe XD look up my top 10 sad truths on auperheroes, I love pokong fun of the logic in the genre.
With that shameless plug out of the way, with all the retcona and reboots it can be pretty confusing on what goes where but if you dedicate enough time to underaranding it it makes more sense.
That’s hard to do sometimes because for a while I had really severe depression in middle & high school that at times that couldn’t even remember my own name. It’s not as bad as back than but I’m still struggling with it. Plus, this probably came about because I watch too much Linkara. Little Secret I did read good & the outlaws just because Kenneth Rocafort is one of my favorite comic artist along with Cliff Chiang. In fact Chiang signed one of my books that he illustrated.
Ouch, sorry about that. That must have been hard for you.
I like Linkara though so why would he be a problem with something like that?
Also I’m not sure if I ever read Kenneth Rocafort’s work. Has he done anything outside Redhood and the Outlaws?
I actually read some of his image work Madame Mirage is really good since the writer is Paul Dini who we all know is great at writing noir fiction. He also did some art for Images Top Cow imprint (The one that publishes Witchblade)
Paul Dini is cool
Yes he is too bad that Paul Dini’s awesome run on Zantana got cancelled by the New 52.
I I don’t like Harley being sexualized like that either but one thing I do like is that they show her hair. I don’t know why but I really like that her hair is visible.
I like how her hair is visible and her independence from the Joker.
As long her messed up relationship with the Joker is on again off again I don’t mind that. Since it’s still important to her as a character.
Reading this genuinely made me happy.
Like;
Omg I’m not the only who hates these character reboots.
And oh I so agree on what you said about Superman and Wally West. I couldn’t have worded it any better 🙂
Thanks 🙂 yeah this is actually a really popular post on my blog and I feel like it’s because of the anger so many people had with the New 52. Granted looking back at this post, there are a few things I feel like I didn’t nail as well as I wanted to but the overall message I think I handled well.
You were born in 1999? Should you even be allowed to have an opinion? I liked Starfire, if you havent read Red Hood & the Outlaws you are missing out I dont know why you would even include her. You literally broke the “don’t judge a book by its cover rule” lol. The comic is amazing. The Superman is actually pretty good & Wally West being black is a good thing with the new Iris, etc. You’re 17 I’m guessing because 1999 to 2016 so your subtle racism is a product of environment. These are fictional characters. The only character I don’t think could be black or Asian are like Batman because it makes no sense to do so. Wally West is his own hero separate from Barry you already have Barry. Outside of this I agree with the others Static story kinda boring, as are some of the others.
Um…I can have an opinion at 17. I mean this whole blog is built upon all the opinions I have on the medium so people are interesyed in what I have to say. Albiet not many but still.
If you liked Starfire and Red Hood and the Outlaws than that’s fine but I didn’t like her portrayal in the comics and it just degraded hwr as a character in my eyes.
How can someone be “subtly racist”? That just seemed weird to me. And I don’t know what you mean that my “subtle racism” is a product of my enviroment since I don’t believe I know anyone personally who is racist. However if I am “racist” because I’m against a traditionally White character being made Black than I disagree. I’m against changing established characters for the sake of diversity. That’s also why I’m against female Thor, Black Captain America, and gay Iceman. I’m fine eith comica attempting to create a more diverse universe since I do realize that representation matters but if it’s going to change a character I love tl do it than I am againar it. Make new characters or give your minor characters more spotlight.
You’re retarded. Bye.
I had a lot of typos there but still
Well, Good news old Wally West is coming back and related to new Wally West according to some published leaks. Also, they also included Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen and don’t know how to feel about that since he’s Alan Moore creation and should be used in the continuity and makes me say no Alan Moore hates DC.
Are you talking about Rebirth? Because I’m pretty sure Wally is still Black… And never read Watchmen but that is weird
Yes, I’m talking about Rebirth apparently some leaks revealed that there are there are two guys named Wally West. It’s later revealed that they are related . I don’t know why DC went there with using Doctor Manhattan since he’s Alan Moore creation and no Wonder Alan Moore hates DC. Since they apparently screwed over a couple of times.
There are two Wally Wests now?! Is one of them White and redhead? and are they both Kid Flash? I’m so confused… >.<
If that happens, I may be the happiest person on the planet.
Yes one of them is the original Wally West and I think he mostly wears the Flash costume.
Okay…I’ll have to check this out when the comics hit the shelves…
Saying there can’t be a black superhero followed by the statement that you love black people doesn’t make it an less racist. I like the new Wally. This guys is a racist joke. What’s wrong with a black superhero?
That is not at all what I said and you know it. I never said there can’t be black superheroes, in fact I even suggested creating NEW black superheroes or give your current black superheroes like Static more spotlight. What I did say is I’m against changing established characters just for the sake of diversity and Wally is suppose to be a white dude with red hair. Heck, I even mentioned how they kinda stereotyped him black so he’s not even GOOD black representation to begin with.
If you disagree with me than fine state your own opinion. But taking what I said and twisting it into something I didn’t say and than using that to call me a racist is just intellectually dishonest.
Wally West does not have to be white, you already have Barry Allen a speester, white, you have Jay Garrick a speedster, who is also guess what? White lol. Then Impulse who is….wow GUESS WHAT WHITE. Lol Changing ONE speedster who is not blood related to Barry Allen doesn’t change anything. Wally West doesn’t have to be white he was by far the most boring Flash. Wally West children had more interesting stuff going on than Wally West to me in addition he was more interesting as a sidekick than a main guy. But this is opinion. Barry Allen forever is the greatest he always made the ultimate sacrifices he was the true fastest man alive, he took the speed force places it never had been. Barry Allen is the greatest Flash. A “black” Flash is a nonfactor.
Ok and like you said that is your opinion. Wally has always been my favorite Flash and he’s always been white. That’s just my opinion.
That’s not what superduperawesomeguy said.
They meant that changing a well established character so drastically was what ruined Wally; but that new black characters were very much welcome and requested, however, making them stereotypical characters based on race was something that ruined the character even more, because those are racist.
You mustn’t twist somebody’s words by taking them out of context. That is very dishonest, vulgar and unfriendly of someone to do that.
Thank you!
You’re most welcome 🙂
Clara you are a wonderful person for calling out this troll. Also Super Nathan (that’s my nickname for you I hope you don’t mind) be sure to read The Flash:Rebirth it was well written and super heartwarming. I love redheaded Wally’s new Flash costumes that will appear in Titans.
Heh, Super Nathan’s fine 😛 and I read Flash: Rebirth a while ago. I’m not a big fan of Wally’s new costume but at least we have redhead Wally back so I’m not complaining too much
So did anybody read DC Rebirth yet?
Well, I have a thing for hair so I like to see superheroes that show their hair. I’m not sorry for saying that. I’m really angry because this black fan who overheard talking about Flash with my friend was upset that redheaded Wally West was back called me a discount white women. I’m Chinese and Hispanic like I told you and never had ever heard anything so racist spoken towards me.
Ouch, sorry that happened to you. Race is a really touchy subject so when people talk about race bending certain characters it’s really easy to claim someone’s a racist. Although imo calling someone a racist is just a buzzword used to shoot someone down even when you don’t have a good argument yourself. And I do agree that I’ve always liked Wally’s Kid Flash costume because it shows the hair at the top. Plus I like redheads so that’s another reason I like it.
Although I’m pretty sure black Wally is still around so no reason to get pissy
Black Wally is still around and he’s one of main characters in the Teen Titans book. He’s redheaded Wally’s Cousin and Redheaded Wally before Flashpoint was married to a Korean woman (At least I assume she is since Park is Korean last name. Either way she Cleary looks East Asian). Still that was a goddamn offensive thing to say to me. If anything it just proved that he thinks minorities deserve less representation than black people.
Right so in the end both sides should be happy. I didn’t like black Wally because he replaced “my” Wally but if we can have both than I’ll be fine.
And everyone should get representation imo
Also this just crossed my mind, remember that episode in Justice League where everyone shared their secret identities to each other? I remember Wonder Woman commenting “Red hair! Suits you!” lol, jist something i remembered
I like redheads too and most of my favorite characters are redheads. Although I’m not fan of blondes at least light blondes to me darker blondes.
Now that I think of it there are quite a few redheads I really like. Wally, Hawkgirl, Starfire, Barbra Gordan, etc.
I forgot to say darker blondes are sexier.
Redheads are awesome plain and simple
Lol agreed
1st thing, i agree about beast boy and raven, they looks bad in “new 52” style.
2nd, i though harly quinn looks better, beside consider there’s a lot super heroes movie around this year, maybe DC want to make a better style for their character to fit in with the movie (it might be), beside i like the brand new supermen without panties outside his costume.
I’ve gotten use to New 52 Harley’s design but I Superman still should have trunks imo
Batgirl of Burnside is technically a run off of the New 52 and I’m not sure if you’ve read the Batgirl New 52, but it is NOT by any means marketed towards little girls. I would argue that not even BoB is. Yes the story was lightened and she was made younger, but it still deals with problems that young girls can’t identify with. I think the cover was fine, but that’s not this post anyway.
As far as the New 52 goes I was interested in this post because I figured it would be about the stories, but it seems like most of this is about the character designs, which is fine. One thing I will say is to read up on your Harley History. Bruce Timm, the artist behind Batman: TAS and more importantly Harley Quinn, draws her and other characters nude. For his own collection. There are comics that he has actually drawn on the internet with Harley seducing The Joker. He has also said that he never wanted Harley to be the “cutesy” Joker’s girlfriend. He wanted her to be sadistic and insane. If you’ve never watched the Justice League: Gods and Monsters miniseries on youtube, I suggest it. She was made what she is specifically because it was a kids show. Gods and Monsters shows this with many of the characters, honestly.
The harlequin costume is also “sexualized” if you will, for the simple reason of how skin tight and form fitting it is. Check out “Preludes and Knock-Knock Jokes” with your next 20 bucks.
Also, the picture you have for New 52 Harley is specifically Suicide Squad. She doesn’t look like that in her own series. She has two different looks in her New 52. One is the Margot Robbie Harley from the soon to come SS movie and the other is a roller derby uniform. The worst part of her New 52 is the story honestly and the costumes all look great.
This post wasn’t one of my good ones tbh but it is one of the most popular ones, which I kinda wish it wasn’t because I see several problems with it but whatever.
It wasn’t JUST character designs but that eas a big part of it. Lobo, Superman, Wally West, and Starfire was more or less based off the personality or how well they were written.
I actually didn’t know as much about Harley as I though I did when I wrote this. Harley has always been somewhat sexual even in the animated series (“Dontcha wanna rev up your Harley”, the pie seen, etc). The Bruce Tim comics also shows this and even shows Harley and Ivy in the shower together naked (which I also like that scene becausw I feel like it’s evidence that the two were suppose to be a couple even back then). Knowing mpre about the character, her sexiness honestly adds more to her than takes away. She’s confident in her body and she’s not ashamed to show it off.
Personally, the New52 Superman didn’t start out that bad as you make it to be, at least in Action Comics, Morrison’s run basically used certain aspects from Pre Crisis era such as his fight against corrupt businessmen like in the Golden Age and the Kents died in his youth in Pre Crisis too. There were parts that showed him being inspiring such as him rebuilding the buildings after a battle or how in the end of Morrison’s run, he refused to wish his parents back in order to save a family who died on Mars. Morrison, Greg Pak still gave us a classic Superman in the New52 Action Comics.
The problem was every where else DC tried to push the more inexperienced brash Superman outside of Action Comics or Geoff Johns run on Superman (which was the most posy crisis New52 Superman got). Then Truth screwed everything up and gave people the wrong impression that New52 Superman was a jerk with no morals, which was a bunch of nonsense. In fact Supermans actions in Grant Morrison’s ACTION run didn’t seem so out of character to be (in fact early Byrne/Wolveman Post-Crisis Superman actions such as leaving a thug on top of a building and throwing a beam through a car with two thugs make Morrison’s young New52 Superman look like a boyscout by comparison IMO)
Raven as the most popular Titan? When Dick Grayson and Wally West exist? C’mon…
Raven was the best character in the cartoon.
I meant as a character in general, cartoon and comics. I mean, c’mon, Dick Grayson is not exactly mildly popular. And Wally’s the guy who fans kept asking for, then raged to DC for, then got to be “the Pre-New 52 thing” they brought back for Rebirth, then beat out Barry Allen in CBR’s popularity pole (the same can be said for Dick, who came in third… as in he beat Wonder Woman!).
Idk man
Okay I was totally with you until your argument about kid flash. As a black person I disagree with how DC made him black because, wtf, it makes sense for him to be white because his uncle’s white, right? but for you to say that you can’t change any of the existing characters to other minority ethnicities is pretty stupid. To darken Wonder woman’s skin to be more Greek-like (I know she’s not actually Greek but they’re closer to Greek than Caucasian) wouldn’t do any harm and there has already been a black lantern. I’m not saying you’re racist though I do question you argument, I’m just saying there’s nothing wrong as long as the doesn’t f* up the character’s facts
Now first off kudos for recognizing I’m not a racist since that buzzword is senselessly thrown everywhere nowadays and this post in particular has caused some of that buzzword name callin in my direction so it’s nice to see someone disagree with me while understanding what genuine racism is.
Now to actually tackle the meat of your comment.
“but for you to say that you can’t change any of the existing characters to other minority ethnicities is pretty stupid.”
No I highly disagree. These characters have been made to look a certain way and there is no reason whatsoever to change that specific look. Wally has always been a straight, white dude with red hair and should always be a straight, white dude with red hair because that’s how he was created. Having him change ethnicity just to create forced diversity is insulting on quite a few levels. Simply making a really good character who just happens to be black would’ve been far better choice. After all, Cyborg was created as a black dude in the “New Teen Titans” comics and now he’s a highly recognized character.
I am against changing a character’s race and gender for the sake of forced diversity. It is pandering, patronizing, and insulting to the fans and to the minority groups that they are trying to pander to.
Also this is kind of an outdated opinion of mine since Rebirth brought back the Wally West I know and love and therefore I don’t really care about this guy. You have your Wally, I have my Wally. In fact now that my Wally’s back it’s actually going along with my opinion of creating original characters since that’s kinda-ish what they did. I disliked black Wally because he replaced my Wally, if both Wallys (Wallies? Wallyses?) can live in harmony than who gives a care.
On your comment about Wonder Woman. Ok. I actually was unaware they were darkening her skin in the comics since I haven’t been reading her current run but hey if it ties her into Greece more than sure why not. That change actually makes sense considering her heritage. Making Wally black makes no sense whatsoever.
About Green Lantern, are you talking about John Stewart? You know he was made black, right? He wasn’t white to begin with. I honestly don’t see how he’s relevant. Cause as far as I know Hal and Kyle are both still white dudes.
I agree with your list. Especially wally! I’m actually a redhead and wally is now black on the TV show too! They need to address that! And Jimmy Olsen is black too. So apparently redheads aren’t allowed on TV or something.
hehe it’s kinda sad actually. Technically redheads is a minority to since they’re like what 2-5% of the population. So we’re losing one minority over the other!
Yeah yeah I know hair colour isn’t the same as race it’s a joke. but still
In one defense. I really like how new Wally West’s Costume looks. It looks really cool. But yeah.. Changing the race of him was a stretch and seem unnecessary.
you seem annoying
This was an old and shitty post I did. I wish it wasn’t nearly as popular as it is. Read some of my more recent articles and maybe I’ll come off as less annoying. Maybe.