My Opinion on #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend and #SayNoToHydraCap

Captain America IIHello interweb, Nate here.  So Cap has been quite busy since his third movie.  Why do I say that?  Because two twitter hashtags have popped up since the film’s release.  These hashtags includes #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend and #SayNoToHydraCap.  So what are my thoughts on these controversies that have popped up suddenly?  Well let’s take a look!

My Opinion on #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend

Stucky Fanart

So a while ago a twitter hashtag went around called #GiveElseAGirlfriend.  Elsa, as most of you know, is the princess from the Disney movie Frozen.  Now saying that Frozen was a popular movie would be an understatement.  So when they announced a sequel for Frozen, fans took to twitter and wanted Elsa to be the first gay Disney princess since she had no love interest in the movie and her sexuality really was never established.  Even beyond that, there are a few LGBT undertones to the movie if you look carefully enough with songs like “Love is an Open Door” and people taking the stance that “Let it Go” is a coming out anthem.  Now are those songs suppose to have LGBT undertones or are fans looking for things that aren’t there?  Honestly I don’t know, but really the point to art is that people can interpret one thing in different ways.  So if you want to see “Let it Go” as a coming out anthem than by all means go ahead, I’m not gonna stop you.  However, I do feel like our society is currently so obsessed with the whole “LGBT pride” movement that people are seeing LGBT undertones even in places where there are none, so while I’m fine with it for the most part I do feel like people go overboard here and there.

Now what the heck does this have to do with Captain America?  Well if you saw Captain America: Civil War (don’t worry, I won’t be spoiling anything here), the entire plot of the movie pretty much revolves around Cap protecting Bucky from the world who thinks Bucky’s a bad guy.  Because of how strong the relationship between Steve and Bucky is, people seem to love to ship them and really want them to be cannon within the MCU has a romantic couple.  Thus they took the #GiveElseAGitlfriend and changed it to #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend.  Now there’s one problem I see with this: Elsa really doesn’t have much of an established sexuality, Steve does.  Captain America has been around for 75 years, Elsa has been around for 3.  Now while I’m actually okay with Elsa being the first gay Disney princess because of her lack of established sexuality and how within the context of the Frozen universe it would still make sense if she was gay, the character of Captain America has always been straight and I’m against changing an established character for the sake of diversity.  Heck, back when I ranted about the New 52 people called me racist for saying I disliked black Wally West.  I’m not racist and I’m not even homophobic.  What I am is against changing an established character just for the sake of diversity when you could have easily created a new character instead.

Now granted people will come to me and say that the comics book Captain America is 75 years old but the MCU Captain America has only been around for 5 years.  There are two problems with that.  First: MCU Cap still have appeared in five movies (Captain America: The First Avenger, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Captain America: Civil War, Avengers, and Avengers: Age of Ultron unless I missed one) while Elsa has only appeared in Frozen.  So MCU Cap still have had more time to establish his character and so far we’ve seen him lock lips with three women (Peggy Carter in The First Avenger, Black Widow in The Winter Soldier, and Sharon Carter in Civil War) and zero men.  Second: the MCU Cap is an adaptation of the comic book Cap.  So if you’re adapting a character you need to keep him consistent with the source material and the source material tells us that Cap is straight.

 

My Opinion on #SayNoToHydraCap

Hydra Cap

Now in a recent Marvel comic under the name Captain America: Steve Rogers #1, Steve Rogers returns to the role as Captain America (probably because Civil War happened).  So Marvel decided to bring him back with a bang by revealing that Steve Rogers was actually a Hydra agent all along.  Now people are obviously ticked at this because Cap was literally created to fight the Nazi’s (which Hydra is a branch of) and now Marvel decided to reveal that he’s actually one of them.  So a lot of people find this as an insult to the character and offensive for his 75 years of history.

So what do I think?   Meh.  No seriously…meh.  I meant I really don’t care and if you read comics than you probably don’t care that much either because this happens all the time and to be completely honest this type of controversy is actually kinda refreshing since all the changes Marvel characters has been going through recently have been because of PC overload.  We have gay Iceman, female Thor, black Captain America (is Sam Wilson still Cap?), etc.  So since this is not really do to Marvel trying to be politically correct with their comics than I’m pretty much ok with it since it’s really nothing more than just a shock value stunt to drive up sales.  Heck, I can see this type of thing as only lasting 5 or 6 issues since once the story is over they’ll probably clear things up and it turns out that hey it’s just a big misunderstanding or some BS like that.  I mean this is Steve Rogers returning to the role as Captain America and whenever a character returns to an iconic mantle (such as Barry Allen returning to the Flash in Flash: Rebirth, Hal Jordan returning to the mantle of Green Lantern in Green Lantern: Rebirth, etc.) the publishers will often do some type of big story or whatever to reintroduce the character back to familiar areas.  I mean that’s why Barry Allen got his own graphic novel for his return rather than just having him come back in the pages of The Flash.

Now this leads to the next question: what if this isn’t temporary or lasts a couple years.  Now the reason I bring this up is I’ve been saying since female Thor and Black Cap hit the shelves that these characters would only be temporary and that by the time the next big event came by (All-New All-Different Marvel) everything would be set back to normal.  It wasn’t.  Now I’m really worried about how long these changes are going to stay around because the longer they remain the more it feels as though they aren’t temporary.  So if Cap remains a Hydra Agent for a couple years…than I’ll be ticked.  But if this only lasts a couple issues than what’s really the big deal?

 

End Poll

So what do you guys think?  Should Cap be gay and is his deal with Hydra a big one?  Let me know in the comments or vote below!

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28 comments

  1. I’m against gay Elsa because she’s in a fairy tale setting and gay characters don’t work in those settings. Also Steve Rogers has always been attracted to only women and adding a minority just for the sake of inclusion is insulting to those minorities. As they should only be included if they add to the story. This coming from someone as identified as bisexual. (Yet I’ll admit that I have a slight preference for men doesn’t make any less bisexual for that)About Nazi Captain America I will be very angry if this is gonna last for a few years. If turns out to be a clone or some form of brainwashing than I will be alright.

    1. The problem I see with the “gay characters don’t work in fairy tale settings” is that this is Disney so it’s a very updated fairy tale setting. Heck, does the real world references the Genie made in Aladdin fit in a real world setting in that sense? Gays has been around probably since people have been around, so allowing a gay character in a Disney fairy tale movie wouldn’t be a terrible thing.

      I don’t see how adding minorities for the sake of inclusion is insulting but it is annoying. Why is it insulting? I’m curious now…

      1. I don’t want Elsa to be gay because she’s in a old world fantasy setting if it was the late 20th century or 21 century it would make more sense. Also I’m sick of bisexual-erasure from both of the gay and straight population. Diversity for diversity’s sake is insulting because the characters seem to be made just for that purpose. The reason why Jaime Reyes and Static Shock were great minority characters as their character came first and their minority status came second. They both were both defined beyond their race/ethnicity.

      2. That…actually makes sense. And what if the plot to Frozen 2 is that Elsa wants to marry a woman instead of a man and the town is outraged? That would be interesting and potential for a creative story

  2. Also Elsa has a big following in the suffers of mentally ill community and don’t we deserve to representation as people who feel differently from the norm? Even today we’re stigmatized as either people who are harmful to others or want attention. As some who suffers depression who had to their feelings and put on a fake smile. Till one day I couldn’t take and had a breakdown. Not so different from Elsa eh? What I’m saying by making Elsa gay other people who are stigmatized are marginalized. Even being gay is more accepted than being bisexual or mentally ill.

      1. No make the story about her still overcoming the struggles because it should be said that it’s okay to not get everything together right away. Also I always thought that she was somewhere in the asexual spectrum.

      2. asexual? eh, that may be possible. but asexual’s still date so she could still end up with a woman in the end, she’s just not interested in…u know…”doing the deed”

  3. I still don’t think Disney will Elsa a lesbian because when they make a gay princess it will probably take place in futuristic setting.

  4. I’m definitely against Captain America ever being gay or bi. He’s an established character and it shouldn’t change to pandor to the current audience. That hashtag should have stayed in fanfic world. Nowadays it feels like the world wants to change everyone to “modernize” them. I’m glad that Marvel hasn’t done that yet.

    The second one is very bad as well though. Captain America working for Hydra for any period of time is terrible and being undercover makes no sense. I feel like this series will be remembered as one of the worst Cap runs of all time with this start and I’m expecting it to be cancelled before issue 20 hits the shelves

    1. Well if I understand what you mean by “modernize” them than they’ve already kinda did that with Thor and Sam Wilson as Cap as well as a bunch of other characters like the new Ms Marvel.

      I did see this post on Facebook talking about if other heroes had a similar plot twist as Cap with Spider-man saying he killed his uncle and Batman saying he shot his own parents. That did put this a bit in more perspective and tbh I probably would hate this more if I liked Cap more. Something like One More Day ticked me off because I love Spider-man and I hated his deal with the devil.

      1. Definitely, but if it keeps up at this pace, it’s going to be very bad 10 years from now. Every character will be heavily radicalized. I saw that meme as well and definitely think that it’s very accurate. Cap was originally created by two jewish writers as a way defend America from Hitler as the ultimate hero. Having him join Hydra, which has always been synonymous with the Nazi’s is really a terrible thing to do. It just laughs in the face of everything that the creators of Cap created him for. I’m sure that it’s just a gimmick and it’ll be revoked but it’s still bad. Plus, Spider-Man has yet to redeem himself from the One More Day event and that was years ago. If they do the same thing to Cap, it could be quite a while before he is fixed.

  5. You’re not homophobic but you are definitely a racist. And the Hydra Cap was in response to the them making the Captain America boyfriend thing trend. Marvel writers did that on purpose. Now if you noticed they backed off on it.

    1. How am I racist? Please explain this to me because that is a serious accusation
      It seems like your simply using that as a buzzword to shoot down my opinion because you don’t agree with me.

      And no, both situations are completely independant of each other and has nothing to do with one another. It’s just coincidense how close in time these two events occured. But the time between these two events were just too short for the writers to write the script, draw the art, edit, and publish the comic simply as a response to the twitter hashtag.

  6. Interesting that you are perfectly comfortable with Cap being Hydra, but not him being gay. You mentioned that you disagree with #givecaptainamericaaboyfriend because his cinematic portrayal should “stay true” to the comics, and that he has an “establish sexuality” to be straight, which are common arguments used by a lot of people against the hashtag.

    My first question for you would be: How should a cinematic adaptation of a character “stay true” to its comic source, when the comics itself changes all the time and has infinite versions? There’s absolutely no character in the MCU that stays completely “true” to their comic versions. And frankly if they do, the MCU would have been a mess.

    Homoeroticism has in fact, always been featured prominently in the comics of Captain America, and has been hinted over the course of cinematic CA trilogy as well.

    1. MCU Bucky is morphed from two characters in the comics: Steve’s much younger army sidekick Bucky Barnes and his childhood best friend/protector Arnie Roth, who later came out to be gay. In the comics, Arnie Roth raised the question to Steve Rogers if he’s “one of them,” a question to which Steve never answered.

    2. Bucky Barnes is named after James Buchanan, a US president that many believe to be gay.

    3. Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes are originated from the largest queer neighborhood back in their days, Brooklyn.

    4. You must know about Jeph Loeb’s Color Series about the lost love of heroes. Interestingly, while Spider-Man: Blue focuses on Gwen Stacy, Daredevil: Yellow focuses on Karen Page, Hulk: Grey focuses on Betty Ross, you would think that Captain America: White would focus on his tragic romance with Peggy Carter. Not true. Captain America: White tells of the sad, painful loss of Bucky Barnes to Steve Rogers, while all the other heroes focus on their love interests in the same series.

    5. Planet Hulk

    6. Captain America in fact marries a female Tony Stark in an AU.

    Coincidence you say?

    Sure, let’s look at some other evidences in the MCU.

    7. In the TFA bar scene when Steve Rogers conjures up his Howling Commandos, chats with Bucky, Peggy Carter walks in the bar, there’s an awkward scene between Cap, Bucky and Peggy. Now, during this scene, the Howling Commandos sings an old folk song called “There Is a Tavern in the Town” in the background. You can watch the scnes here with the song lyrics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1bPRotpQDQ. Notice how the lyrics is precisely in-sync with this entire scene (and volume was turned up when they sing “he left me for a damsel dark” and scene cuts to Bucky’s facial expression). This song perfectly mirrors the relationship between the three characters and foreshadows Bucky/Cap separation that soon follows.

    8. Again, in TWS, when Steve Rogers & Bucky Barnes reunites for the first time in 70 years, music played at Steve’s apartment was an WWII song “It’s Been a Long Long Time.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG1L9wxYbs0 (search the lyrics!) In CW, Tony’s mother was playing “Try to Remember” with piano, the lyrics reads “Deep in December….snow will follow.” which foreshadows their death by the Winter Soldier.

    9. In CA:TWS, When Black Widow asked “Nobody Special?”, Cap responds, “it’s hard to find someone with shared life experience.” In exact 20 minutes later, he and Bucky Barnes meets on the highway, the ONLY person in the world in either the past, the present, or the future that can possibly have shared life experience with him. This is classic question-answer storytelling technique being used here. Remember this is a Marvel million-dollar action film, no screen time is wasted and no dialogue is without meaning. The directors/writers plant that dialogue there for a reason.

    10. Steve also utters the line “Even when I had nothing, I had Bucky,” they vow to each other “I am with you till the end of the line.” “Your Bucky” “he said ‘Bucky’ and all of a sudden I was that 16 year old kid again in Brooklyn” If those lines don’t strike you as romantic, I don’t know what does. Do you say those lines to your brother or best friend?

    11. Steve got distracted during the battle at Crossbones’ mere mention of “your Bucky,” just like how Vision got distracted during the battle by his lover to-be Scarlet Witch. Hmmm.

    12. Thematically, Steve does not actually become Captain America until he’s motivated by rescuing Bucky from Hydra base in the first CA movie. He dropped his shield (and the Captain America identity), throws away everything in his life, in both TWS and CW, just to reconnect to that same person.

    Oh and just as a side information, Peggy Carter, Steve’s canon love interest in TFA, actually turns out to be bisexual in her TV series, Agent Carter. Not to mention that Peggy Carter’s character would be considered quite masculine for a woman of her time. She’s definitely not the embodiment of femininity for her generation.

    And what do Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, writers of CA movies say about Steve and Bucky?
    “Of course, this is still a rollicking adventure tale and no adventure is complete without a love story. And, yes, these books have one — the longest, most tortured one in Marvel history, in fact. We’re talking about Steve and Bucky, without smirking or innuendo or raised eyebrows. Platonic though the relationship may be, from the meet cute to the tragic separation, their bond has all the elements of a classic romance.”

    The evidences/hints are all there. I am not saying that your interpretation is wrong. Yes, there still possibility that they are just brothers. You can argue that all these evidence are coincidental and that one would do the same for best friend/brother, but when the evidences pile up, it’s difficult to make a case that the writers have no romantic subtext intended for them.

    If you look at the entire arc of the Steve-Bucky story, there are just as much, if not more, evidence to suggest that there is a romantic component to their bonding, than that they are just brothers/best friends. Their relationship has clearly been platonic so far, but it would not be far stretched to assume that their relationship has the potential to become romantic if they reunite and spend more time together.

    That is precisely why the Steve/Sharon kiss felt so out of place – how do you make a romance believable and convincing when all that Steve Rogers ever thinks or does in all his movies is about someone else?

    1. I’m actually on vacation at the moment and thus don’t habe my computer on me so I’m writing this from my phone. So I apologize ahead of times if this is full of typos or if this seems like a rather short reply to your long and rather well thought-out comment. With that said I did read the whole thing, it’s just harder to write a reslly good cpmment via phone.

      Now one thing that I’m not sure whether I got across well in this post is that I realize that the whole Hydra Cap thing makes absolutely no sense within the context of the Marvel Earth 616 universe and it does go against the voncept if the character, but I’m not as big of a Captain America fan as I am a Spider-man, Batman, Deadpool, or X-Men fan. When Marvel or DC messes with the characters I mentioned before (likw Spider-man and One More Day or the upcoming Death of X) than I do get more passionate about my anger towards it because I love those characters. While I’ve always really liked Cap, he’s not one of my absolute favoeite characters so to me this is more of just a really dumb Captain America story that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. So I do see the problem with it, I’m just not as furious about it as other people.

      Now as for Cap being gay. I attempted to talk about this and I don’t really think I did very well (this wasn’t really one of my better posts admittingly) but I recognize that our society don’t give LGBT people enough representation so queer people really don’t have a lot of characters or stories that they can relate to sense literally everything is straight representation. So when people try to find LGBT undertones in places like the MCU it makes sense to me because people want their heroes to be like them so they can feel like they can be heroes themselves and thus they may make a straight character gay as their headcannon because of their desire for representation. That’s really why a lot of same sex relationships involving straight characters is popular among fanfic creators like Spideypool (although Deadpool is pansexual Spidey is straight), Cablepool, Stucky, Stony, Superbat, Batgirl and Supergirl, etc. and I’m perfectly fine with peoplw doing that (even contributing a little my self although none of my stuff is public) mainly because it’a fanfiction and not actually altering the established characters within the official universes.

      However as much as I feel like LGBT represenration does need more visibility than it does (and to be fair it is getting better with shows like Steven Universe and Adventure Time), I still feel like established characters shouldn’t be changed unless it makes sense for the character. When a character is created they represent something and thus fans of that character becomes a fan of what the character represents. So when you change what a character represents, your changing what fans love about the character’s representation. Now I admit sometimes it does make more sense for a character to be changed depending on the circumstances given. Deadpool was created as a straight character, let’s be honest here, but considering that Deadpool is (in his words) unf*ckable since he’s basically a walking talking pile of cancer cells it makes sense that he of all people knows what it’a likw to be judged on phyaical appearance and thus I always figured he would be more willing to do whoever regardless of what they look like. Heck this is even shown in the comics sense he one married a alien space hippo thing in Daniel Way’s run at one point. While Deadpool was created as a straight character, his character really has evolved sense than and him being pansexual really does make a lot of sense. However, most characters are straight and makes more sense to be straight.

      Now as for your evidence that Steve is possibly queer. To be honest if Steve becomes gay in tje MCU I won’t angry about it but it is hard to tell when some of these hints are actually hinting to him being gay or just peoplw trying to find representation where there just isn’t. Although I will admit, I doubt a lot of people would be shocked if Steve actually does have romantic interest for Bucky and thier relationship is adorable. I’m against the idea because I’m gainst changing established characters for the sake of diversity, HOWEVER I’m not so against it that I think it would “ruin the character” or whatever.

      Although if we want queer characters in the MCU (which I’m assuming we do) than just make a Young Avengers movie! I love Wiccan and Hulkling :3

      1. As I have pointed out earlier, Captain America is a figure that is VERY likely to be created with the intentions of being bisexual by the writers, both in the comics and the movie. This is actually pretty widely acknowledged by the fans. There is nothing that proves Steve Rogers is 100% heterosexual, even in the comics. In fact, I would be genuinely surprised if he IS 100% heterosexual.

        And no, I do not read Cap/Bucky as romantic because I “want” to see them that way, nor am I desperate for any LGBT representation. I see their relationship to have a romantic component simply because of how the narrative presents their relationship. And I bet a lot of people see it too, otherwise this hashtag would not have trended at all.

        But romantic or not, his bond with Bucky Bares is much stronger than any of his actual romances (or other types of relationships he has). Frankly in MCU his romances have always been conveniently used to strengthen the relationship between him and Bucky, seeing that BOTH Peggy and Sharon have been of crucial help to him rescuing and finding Bucky.

        This I guess everyone can agree: Steve Rogers will not drop his shield for Peggy or Sharon. He will only do so for Bucky.

      2. Actually yeah that does make sense. His relationship with Bucky is stronger than those of Peggy and Sharon and that’s not really upnfor debate. I do have to wonder though if these hints are intentional or not. And I would be lying if I said I didn’t see his love for Bucky, whether platonic or romantic

    2. I’m actually on vacation at the moment and thus don’t have my computer on me so I’m writing this from my phone. So I apologize ahead of times if this is full of typos or if this seems like a rather short reply to your long and rather well thought-out comment. With that said I did read the whole thing, it’s just harder to write a reslly good cpmment via phone. Also, sorry for how long this took to reply, internet is crap here.

      Now one thing that I’m not sure whether I got across well in this post is that I realize that the whole Hydra Cap thing makes absolutely no sense within the context of the Marvel Earth 616 universe and it does go against the voncept if the character, but I’m not as big of a Captain America fan as I am a Spider-man, Batman, Deadpool, or X-Men fan. When Marvel or DC messes with the characters I mentioned before (likw Spider-man and One More Day or the upcoming Death of X) than I do get more passionate about my anger towards it because I love those characters. While I’ve always really liked Cap, he’s not one of my absolute favoeite characters so to me this is more of just a really dumb Captain America story that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. So I do see the problem with it, I’m just not as furious about it as other people.

      Now as for Cap being gay. I attempted to talk about this and I don’t really think I did very well (this wasn’t really one of my better posts admittingly) but I recognize that our society don’t give LGBT people enough representation so queer people really don’t have a lot of characters or stories that they can relate to sense literally everything is straight representation. So when people try to find LGBT undertones in places like the MCU it makes sense to me because people want their heroes to be like them so they can feel like they can be heroes themselves and thus they may make a straight character gay as their headcannon because of their desire for representation. That’s really why a lot of same sex relationships involving straight characters is popular among fanfic creators like Spideypool (although Deadpool is pansexual Spidey is straight), Cablepool, Stucky, Stony, Superbat, Batgirl and Supergirl, etc. and I’m perfectly fine with peoplw doing that (even contributing a little my self although none of my stuff is public) mainly because it’a fanfiction and not actually altering the established characters within the official universes.

      However as much as I feel like LGBT represenration does need more visibility than it does (and to be fair it is getting better with shows like Steven Universe and Adventure Time), I still feel like established characters shouldn’t be changed unless it makes sense for the character. When a character is created they represent something and thus fans of that character becomes a fan of what the character represents. So when you change what a character represents, your changing what fans love about the character’s representation. Now I admit sometimes it does make more sense for a character to be changed depending on the circumstances given. Deadpool was created as a straight character, let’s be honest here, but considering that Deadpool is (in his words) unf*ckable since he’s basically a walking talking pile of cancer cells it makes sense that he of all people knows what it’a likw to be judged on phyaical appearance and thus I always figured he would be more willing to do whoever regardless of what they look like. Heck this is even shown in the comics sense he one married a alien space hippo thing in Daniel Way’s run at one point. While Deadpool was created as a straight character, his character really has evolved sense than and him being pansexual really does make a lot of sense. However, most characters are straight and makes more sense to be straight.

      Now as for your evidence that Steve is possibly queer. To be honest if Steve becomes gay in tje MCU I won’t angry about it but it is hard to tell when some of these hints are actually hinting to him being gay or just peoplw trying to find representation where there just isn’t. Although I will admit, I doubt a lot of people would be shocked if Steve actually does have romantic interest for Bucky and thier relationship is adorable. I’m against the idea because I’m gainst changing established characters for the sake of diversity, HOWEVER I’m not so against it that I think it would “ruin the character” or whatever.

      Although if we want queer characters in the MCU (which I’m assuming we do) than just make a Young Avengers movie! I love Wiccan and Hulkling :3

    3. Hi again. I’ve returned from my vacation and decided to take a closer look at your examples. It’s really difficult to type out a long comment out on a smartphone and juggling between a comment and google for fact checking is a hard thing to do and since I was on vacation I really didn’t have time. But since I’m home I thought I’d go through your examples and address them each individually before making a conclusion.

      1. Now I do have to admit that I don’t know Cap’s history as much as I do Batman, Spider-man, X-Men, Deadpool, etc. so I did have to look Arnie Roth up for more detail. Now where exactly are the similarities between MCU Bucky and Earth-616 Arnie? I don’t really see any personally based of my quick research. Although even if MCU Bucky is partially based off this character, it’s kind of a stretch to say that that means they share the same sexual orientation, especially since he’s mostly based off of Bucky from the comics. I also couldn’t find the quote you stated so I’m not sure what the context of it is. Can you please give me a specific comic to look at?

      2. I found no evidence that showed Bucky was deliberately named after President James Buchanan HOWEVER the similarity in names does make it very likely and I’d be pretty surprise if this was false. However President James Buchanan may have been gay and Bucky might have been named after him, that wouldn’t mean that Bucky is suppose to be gay too. It’s possible, but not likely.

      3. You’re actually 100% right on this fact. After looking it up, Steve Roger’s apartment in the 40’s in Brooklyn would have bee located near several gay bars and hotels meaning that his neighborhood would’ve basically have been a gay hotspot. This would probably mean that Steve would’ve grown up around them and be used to and comfortable with gay people so he wouldn’t be as against the idea as a lot of people were back then. However living in a gay neighborhood doesn’t make you gay (just as I can live in a place largly populated by black people but I’d still be white). While I would say this is a good argument for the idea of Steve being at least bi, it’s nothing definitive.

      4. This I find another strong argument for you considering that Jeph Loeb’s colored books are meant to show the best of the romances given the staring heroes. I actually never read any of them but I do know their stories and I admit it is pretty hard to deny that Jeph Loeb must see a strong relationship between Steve and Bucky of he dedicates a colored story to it. Again, never read it so I don’t know what it’s about, but I do admit that it does shine some light on a possible relationship there.

      5. What about it?

      6. I have heard about that and while it MAY be hinting at something considering that gay characters at the time was a big no no for comic books, however nothing definitive here.

      7. I see what you’re getting at but the trouble I find with this is that it’s hinting towards the complex relationship between Bucky and Steve, not necessarily that that relationship is a romantic one. Any further and it seems like you’re just interpreting it that way because you’re looking to far into it.

      8. OK I do have to admit that I’m not a very musical person so sometimes these things get me a bit confused but again I don’t think romance is deliberately implied

      9. Again, Steve and Bucky as a very complex relationship within the MCU and their bond is rather close. However I don’t think you can translate that into romantic interest. You can interpret it that way easily as headcannon or fanfic, but nothing cannonical.

      10. Eh, possible but not definitive.

      11. OK that actually is a rather interesting parallel that I never noticed. Civil War did a fantastic job at fleshing out the relationship between the characters. Maybe it’s a hint that they’re interested in each other, but it could be a coincidence…or just showing that Steve cares about Bucky such as Vision does for Wanda but care=romantically interested.

      12. Cap doesn’t like bullies and would drop everything to save anybody. Bucky’s only special because of their relationship.

      Overall I do have to say that the relationship between Steve and Bucky is very complex and their relationship is strong. I honestly doubt that the writers are deliberately hinting at romantic interests but I do admit that if they went that route it would not only make sense within the context of the MCU, but it also doesn’t need to be forced at all considering their established relationships. You did bring up a couple really good points, but you also brought up things that while it can mean romantic it could also (and more likely) mean that the two just have a very close bond. Let me make something clear. If the MCU does make this cannon than I would not be upset. I don’t think they will go that route and part of me doesn’t want them to because I don’t like changing established characters unless it makes sense, but as I said it would make sense and I would be lying if I said I didn’t see anything.

  7. Hi, first of all thanks for looking into my very long dissertation again.

    1. You can find an in-depth analysis of Arnie Roth here. http://geeksout.org/blogs/aaron-tabak/forgotten-gay-characters-captain-americas-gay-pal-arnie-roth . Also him asking Cap if he’s “one of them” is in the same article http://geeksout.org/sites/default/files/event-images/CA296d.jpg (image 4)

    The similarities between MCU Bucky with Arnie is that in MCU Bucky takes on the identity of Steve’s “childhood best friend”/”protector”/”teenage Romeo” of Arnie while in the comics Bucky is Steve’s underage child sidekick. These are two very different kinds of relationships. Although MCU Bucky took after the name of Bucky Barnes, his backstory/origins is closer to Steve-Arnie. And precisely because of this, Steve-Bucky relationship in MCU is made even stronger because Bucky grew up with Steve all along when Steve was nobody and their lives have incredible parallels (Arnie Roth never became superhuman and eventually died).

    5. Secret Wars: Planet Hulk is a story that a lot of comic fans feel portray Steve and Bucky as a couple. You can do a search on google. A lot of discussions about this actually.

    12. Yes, Steve Rogers has always been someone who’s willing to sacrifice his own life for justice and protection of others. But Chris Evans have spoken many times that Cap’s motives in Civil War are “selfish,” and one of the most important lines Zemo said to Cap is that he’s found the “flaw” in Captain America. So no, the actions he took in Civil War are not just for anybody. He does it because it’s Bucky. Director also said that by dropping the shield, Steve walks away the identity of Captain America and chooses to be who he really is-Steve Rogers.

    This, by the way, sounds exactly identical as how a gay man comes out of closet, choosing to be himself rather than socially perceived as the ideal heterosexual male.

    Now, of course none of my “evidences” DIRECTLY suggests that Steve is bisexual. And like you said, of course he can have gay friends and live in a gay neighborhood and be 100% straight.

    But again, when evidences/hints pile up like this, my argument is that it is in fact quite inaccurate to assume that Steve Rogers’ character is created to be 100% heterosexual, like your original article suggests. It’s simply too many coincidences for his bisexuality to be not considered as a possibility.

    Unfortunately, of all the superheroes Captain America is THE ONE that Marvel cannot make gay/bi – not yet anyway. We still live in an age that LGBT remains a stigma. How outrageous and unthinkable would it be, if Steve Rogers himself, the idealistic alpha male representation of American masculinity, the walking American flag, everybody’s fav hero, is attracted to a man? This absolutely cannot happen, which is why Sharon kiss has to be there. Steve & Bucky have to be reminiscing about girlfriends, otherwise the logical outcome of the MCU CA trilogy is that Steve and Bucky will eventually be together.

    Sorry if I am repeating myself, but to me it’s quite obvious that the narrative used in MCU to portray Steve & Buck is at least somewhat intentionally romantic. The music used during their emotional scenes, the slow motion, the way they kept “falling” together, the way Steve drops his shield in Civil War with Bucky in his arms, the dialogue between them…I don’t know man, I honestly never seen any “brotherhood” portrayed this way in films. If they are brothers, Steve could at least make Tony feel better by making some explanations after he destroyed Tony’s reactor. Instead, he walks away like a man who doesn’t care about anything else in his life anymore–his legacy, his Avengers family, and his identity–except to be with one person. Hmmm, sounds like a lot of epic romance tales we’ve seen before. Have we ever seen this type of portrayal for non-romance?

    Yes you can argue that one would do it for a true friend, but one would do it for true love also. Why rule the latter out as a possibility?

    Oh by the way, in another interview with the Russos, when host asked “But you already have a romantic B story with Cap and Bucky (in Winter Soldier)..” Russos responded “We sure do, we still do.” Moderator:” Do you feel you need to tone down the sexual tension on set?” Russos, “Why would we?” And did I mention Russos call their relationship a love story. That’s the thing. They WANT you to read them as romantic.

    I think that in 10 years, Captain America will come out to be bisexual. It’s just a matter of time. Just wait and see. 🙂

    1. Thanks for sharing the article on Arnie. I read the whole thing and it was quite beautiful to read. In the end I’m not sure if Marvel will ever out Steve but after this conversation I am a tad more open to the idea that Cap isn’t as straight as everyone thinks he is. Of course you could have gay friends, fight homophobia, and be extremely close with other guys and not be gay yourself. But on the other hand I guess it would make more sense for Steve to come out than other Avengers like Tony Stark or Bruce Banner. If Steve does eventually come out of the closet than I’d be perfectly fine and just hope he gets together with Bucky of all people. If he doesn’t, I won’t be too upset considering that Steve is still an amazing character.

      I’m actually planning on reading Ed Brubaker’s run of Captain America fairly soon. His run on the character brought Bucky back as Winter Soldier so it should be interesting to see the similarities/differences between the comics and the movies.

      Also with our discussion and a long discussion I had with one of my friends I know in person I’m working on an article about LGBT representation in comic books. It’ll probably be out some time next week but I wanted to let you know in case you were interested.

      One last thing, thanks for commenting and having this discussion with me. I learned a lot and this stuff tends to interest me. 🙂

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